Catoosa fire meeting heats up
By Randall Franks
Friday September 7, 2007 10:12:43am


Some heated discussion brought the Catoosa County Fire Resource Committee meeting to an end Thursday night.

“We won’t work on a committee that Marlin Thompson (Post Volunteer Fire Department chairman) is on,” Catoosa Fire & Rescue Chief Chuck Gass said to Committee Chairman Dewayne Hill.

Gass had just informed the committee his organization made an open records request for the e-mail communications between former Catoosa Manager Ron Brown and Thompson. Gass said the e-mails show Thompson and Brown were working together for at least a month prior to the Board of Commissioners Retreat in late June where consolidation of the county’s two volunteer departments and the hiring of a new chief were discussed.

“Either we were left out intentionally or unintentionally,” he said.

Gass asked two weeks ago whether Thompson had written the job description for the proposed new fire chief. Thompson said he didn’t.

Within the e-mails was one including a list of requirements for the new fire chief sent by Thompson to Brown, Gass said.

“This is not what that is,” Thompson said. ”I provided info that was requested from off of websites and other things like that. A copy of a document off a web page, I copied and pasted that from a website to a Word document and sent it to him.”

Chief Bruce Ballew of Fort Oglethorpe Fire & Rescue asked Thompson whether he did it knowing it would be sent out later for a job description.

“No, I was told it was for a project….a consolidation project,” he said.

Catoosa County Chairman Bill Clark brought together interested parties to discuss proposed consolidation of the Catoosa County Fire & Rescue and Post Volunteer Fire Department initially Aug. 2 after both departments requested meetings with commissioners after media reports of consolidation and hiring a new fire chief surfaced following the commissioners’ retreat.

Commissioner Hill chairs the committee, which includes Ballew, Thompson, Gass, Catoosa Deputy Chief Jim White, and alternates Merv McDonald from Post Volunteer Fire Department and James Dycus from Catoosa Fire & Rescue.

“What do you guys suggest we do?” Hill asked. “If you turn it over to the commissioners, we can make a decision, but I would like to have the committee’s input…”

“It’s good to get the problem out now before we move on with business that we need to be looking at,” he said.

Hill said he will discuss the issue with commissioners and see what the next step should be.

Prior to the flare-up, the committee lightly reviewed a list of fire related topics from how consolidation could affect insurance ratings to what types of services the commissioners want to deliver to taxpayers.

Chief Ballew emphasized the committee needs direction from the commissioners as to what form of consolidation they want, so the committee can provide information working towards those goals.

Hill said from his impression commissioners are looking at countywide consolidation.

Hill scheduled another committee meeting in two weeks.



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fofire8
Comments: 11
Joined: 07/02/2007
05/16/2008 01:25:46 AM
I'm sure that if the county took away the abilty (via funding) to do the very thing that keeps your family, neighbors, even total strangers safe, and allows you to protect the property and businesses that provide the economy for Catoosa County, you might be a little angry too. If by equipment you mean fire engines, these were purchased from SPLOST, which voters approved to be used by both fire departments (the two for the west side apparently are not going to the POST as of yet). And the 911 system uses a radio repeater which is owned by the Post.

Outsider---thanks for the reminder of our history. I wished I could have seen the Post in it's heyday. The fire service has changed from the mostly volunteer particpants to career firefighters, and respect has dimished for those who remain volunteers (even from the "paid guys"). Commisioners expect cheap fire departments but don't blink at law enforcement budgets. If the county hired 60-100 firefighters, people would find a reason to complain that it was wasting tax dollars. Maybe the system worked because government officials respected fire leaders and realized that they needed each other to serve the community they represent.

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/15/2008 06:20:55 PM
Outsider, it is good to remember those days and the men that helped it work.

Today with about 65,000 residents (less than 15% in FO), Catoosa County has changed. Not all for the better, but changed.

The volunteers at both the Post and Catoosa are fantastic, dedicated firemen that we all depend on for our lives in an emergency.

Unfortunately their leaders, all three Chiefs, are more caught up in the political turf battles than even the elected officials of the County and both cities.

Certainly the elected officials of the County do not know how to fight fires, and they don't claim to know. But I wish those three Chiefs would stop thinking they know how to run the County and just fight the fires.

If you have followed the FO issues over the past several years you must be able to see the lack of respect due FO in their management skills of City Managers, Police Chiefs, City Attorney, Mayors, and on and on. FO can't even manage their 15% of the County and they get no respect from the other 85% of the County people.

The County is starting their plan and goal to get the entire County to an ISO 3. The County seems to have bought all the equipment, why wouldn't the County want to control their own destiny on the deployment of the manning and equipment? The County runs the whole 911 system. The County supplies most of the funds for the expansion of the water system.

The new Chief Nichols has the stripes and experience to lead the County. The County Manager Helton picked him and along with the County finance guy, can build a very good organization.

Like most growing metropolitan areas Catoosa County will be headed to a full time fire department down the road 10-15 years. Maybe in one or two years if the Chiefs keep messing around. People just can't volunteer like they used to with the full time jobs they have now.

Fire fees will be coming. $25 per year in the 70's was very reasonable then, and even $100 to $150 per year now would be reasonable per household. Today that would bring in over $2.5 to $4.2 million per year. That would pay for at least 60-100 full time firemen, depending on salaries and benefits. Wouldn't that do a lot to take the whole County to a Class 3?

The Chiefs seem to like to spread the fear that changes from a Class 3 to a Class 5 in the Post areas will cost $100 to $200 more in insurance per year. Then in the future when most of the County goes from a Class 5 to a Class 3, all those households will be saving more money in insurance than a fire fee may cost them.

What worked when the County was 15,000 and good men like you referenced could work together, may be history. Today with 65,000 people and growing, the County leaders need to start the Plan that will take us to the next level.

The system WAS and IS broken. The County is on the right track. With or without the three Chiefs. Morally the Chiefs need to follow the lead of the new Chief Nichols with respect. If not respect for their elders, then respect for their betters.

Outsider, it is good to remember those days and the men that helped it work.



 
Outsider
Comments: 4
Joined: 05/15/2008
05/15/2008 10:44:44 AM
I have been trying to remain informed about what is going on from a distance and I am now just plain bumfuzzled. I was a member of PVFD a long time ago and am now halfway across the country. The PVFD supported itself by selling contracts to residents and businesses that wanted to insure that the fire department had the equipment to put our their fires. I don't remember what the commercial contracts cost, but the residential ones were $25.00 per year which was a bargain even at the time. The rest of the operating budget of the department came from a little FO City support and fundraisers done by the firemen. Ther firemen, back in the 70's and 80's anyway, did BBQ's and raffled lawnmowers and did all kings of stuff to raise money. Did you know that the PVFD men actually paid for and built the original City Hall that housed the Police, Fire, Courts and other city offices and when it was finished, sold it to the city for $1.00? Did you know that at one time when PVFD had stations in Walker and Catoosa counties that they were one of the largest volunteer fire departments in the country? You would not have believed the respect recieved from other departments throughout the South and the citizens as well. Local people as onlookers at fires would say "Oh, here comes F.O., the fire will be put out now."

Until I started reading about the county wanting to take over the PVFD, everything I read about FOFR/PVFD was holding true to the legacy that people such as Reuben Satterfield, Harold Cook, Luther Nicholson and many, many other leaders and founders of the city originally set in motion. The fact that FOFR has a 3 ISO rating just goes to show that they know what they are doing.

Why are you trying to fix something that isn't broken? I know it isn't a monetary cause, it is just a political cause. The county commission wants control of one more thing. The county commission wants to leave their red headed step-child (The City of Fort Oglethorpe) high and dry wondering what happened.

Look at the history people. Respect the men and women that made the PVFD and the City of Fort Oglethorpe what it is today. I can remember a time when the volunteers where respected and welcome. There has always been a rivalry between PVFD and Ringgold FD. Both toned out near the line of service, and there was a race to see who could get there first. PVFD worked with East Ridge, Rossville, Walker County and was even contracted for the City of Ridgeside and Walden's Ridge in Tennessee. Please put the politics aside and make a decision based on what is the morally right thing to do.

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/08/2008 09:00:08 PM
Now we hope Ballew, Gass and Thompson will step up like good public servants and really work with the new Chief.

Chief Nichols has earned the position, has the experience and deserves the respect to pull this thing together.

The Commissioners did the right thing in letting Mike Helton lead this search for a Chief.

It will take time. Give them all time, and hope everyone has patience.



 
FOFR818
Comments: 1
Joined: 05/07/2008
05/08/2008 01:17:53 PM
Thank God This is a good decision!!!

 
ptc
Comments: 3
Joined: 07/03/2007
05/07/2008 10:38:10 PM
Thank you Lord!

 
ptc
Comments: 3
Joined: 07/03/2007
05/07/2008 10:34:55 PM
God still answers prayer...


 
fofr906
Comments: 12
Joined: 07/01/2007
05/07/2008 09:51:24 PM
County finally made a good decision...............

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/06/2008 08:52:01 PM
Time will tell if the Post comes on board. I'm doubtful that FO will ever have the sense to join a Consolidated Department.

The County has a good plan that the Post should be able to agree with in the long term. The Consolidated idea is just too good an idea and too much momentum is moving in that direction. Now or later, Consolidation is the way to go.

In the long term Gass can't handle the full time Chief position that is needed to lead that Consolidated Department and surely reasonable heads will prevail. Gass has the bad reputation of being an admitted felon, but most importantly Gass has a full time job with all his businesses. The County must have a full time Consolidated Chief and hopefully it will be somebody from the outside.

If the County brings in an outside Chief, that should bring on the Post.

Again, it's a done deal.

I think the County can do very well. When the house burned on Cloud Springs Road several months ago (west of Mack Smith I think it was), the first engine on site was the County unit. Did it come from Highway 41; correct?

fofire8
I also would hate to see FO miss the Consolidation now. The Post says in the News that if they go it alone they will need more money from FO. That seems to prove that the fire services for the FO residents was being subsidized by the other County tax payers. That wasn't right. FO residents need to pay their fair share for the good ISO 3 rating they have and gain the savings of better insurance premiums.







 
fofire8
Comments: 11
Joined: 07/02/2007
05/06/2008 12:18:41 PM
I agree in part with catvoter---consolidation id the way to go. The way to go about is the problem. ALL officials should rely on the expertise of the others involved, and include them in the process. ISO rating not withstanding, what is the best course to suit the need of improving the fire service in the county? It it usually a long and complicated act. If the way it is moving along doesn't agree with how the individual departments / commisioners believe, then it is their duty to disagree and then make consignments to go forward. Leaving FO out of the consolidation would not benefit anyone. That is why we have a democratic government---we can choose to agree or disagree at will.

 
fofr906
Comments: 12
Joined: 07/01/2007
05/06/2008 09:30:26 AM
I'm sorry that was incorrect, the correct number is 11,808 including the City of Fort Oglethorpe but excluding commercial. This info was gathered by using the Tax/GIS software on the Counties website and hand counting by street. You can't go by the census because the demographics are fluid they change constantly.

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/06/2008 12:00:20 AM
Debate is interesting because it is a matter of perspective.

Some of us believe the County IS doing the right thing. The County has taken the action and the Post gets to chose the reaction.

Can the FO/Post maintain all stations after losing the $32,000 per month the County was paying?

I know I asked before, but when the Census for FO said their were about 6,900 population and about 2,900 households, where does the 10,000+ households you quoted come from? The total County was 25,000+ households.

http://censtats.census.gov/data/GA/1601330956.pdf


 
fofr906
Comments: 12
Joined: 07/01/2007
05/05/2008 11:04:09 PM
We all enjoy a good debate, and there is alot to debate. But as deadlines come and go only time will tell the true impact these decisions will have on the citizens. There is still time for the County to do the right thing. POST will be fine, those guys will be very disappointed to lose area it has serviced for over 50 years, but hey every great thing must come to an end.

The Mack Smith Road and the Boynton fire stations WILL remain open to service the City of Fort Oglethorpe and anyone else who it is called upon to help. To the 10,000 + households serviced in the County by FO/POST, Godspeed

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/05/2008 08:57:42 PM
lee
I'm in the County.

My question on Gass being incompetent was my question on his knowledge of fire fighting and training. Without the felony thing, was he a good Chief before the felony?

If you look back at my very first posting on this blog, I said the Consolidated Chief should come from the outside.

Your and others postings seem to follow an assumption that the ISO rating changes immediately if the County takes over an area.

The FO/Post website seems to encourage that false claim. Of course if we ask our insurance agents if our rates change for the worse, will the premium go up, they say yes. But when I asked the question, the agent asked "why would the ISO rating get worse?" then that led to the fact ratings may take a year to change and only then if the new Fire Department doesn't follow the ISO rating team's suggestions.

The County has committed to putting a Consolidated Department in place that will not worsen ratings. It seems easy to see that happen if the Post joins the Consolidation. Maybe harder to do if the County has to go without the Post Volunteers on the night shifts.

I've got an open mind and questions on wanting the closest unmanned station take care of my property. If there were manned stations at 41, manned at Three Notch, and manned at even the new Westside area; then unmanned on Old Mill. What truck would get to the Colonnade first? I think the manned stations would get there before the closest station. Plus aren't both 41 and Three notch within the 5 mile range?

A County plan can work.



 
lee2854
Comments: 18
Joined: 09/07/2007
05/05/2008 09:05:15 AM
Catvoter,

Why do you seem so sarcastic towards comments? You say does this make Chuck Gass incompetent? Well if I was a paid firefighter I don’t think I would want my supervisor to have a criminal history. I don’t think you can be a certified firefighter or police officer with a criminal history so why would he be able to?

Yeah they vote him in or whatever, but apparently he gets away with everything else in town so why would the VOTE be so formal and “right”? It could just be a front….I don’t know ask a CCFR volunteer if they vote for Chuck or not….

If you don’t think Bobby Winters and Dewayne Hill are Clark goonies then you are blind. I laugh everytime I hear Bobby Winters have double talk because that is not what Bill wanted him to say…I makes me laugh right now!

Look catvoter if you live in DOWNTOWN Ringgold your protection will not change and you really have no dog, persay, in the fight. Your opinion means nothing to me. On the other hand with my house being covered by a Post station I have a dog in the fight and don’t appreciate what is going one. Maybe if you would have had the ISO Class 3 for 5 years then it changing you would be upset to, but you have always had second rate fire protection.

I’m sorry for your higher ISO rating and I am also sorry mine will soon be in the same shape as yours.

Besides just ISO I want the CLOSEST fire station to come to my home, (Macksmith Rd) not the new one that is going to be on Lakeview Drive. What about the citizens that commented in the Times Free Press about wanting Boynton station to still respond to their house. If they are not dispatched they cannot go because how are they supposed to know about it! If I lived on Old Mill Rd or Boynton Drive I would want the Boynton station to come to my house! It is just putting those citizens at risk, especially at night as fofire8 says that station 6 only have daytime crews!



 
ringgoldone
Comments: 448
Joined: 07/24/2006
05/05/2008 06:31:23 AM
I disagree about Winters. I think (from what I have witnessed) that he does whatever Bill tells him to. He can't even answer a straight question unless he talks to Bill first.

I don't think Lynn Long can win. Too much baggage. I'm surprised Bentley or Chris Scott didn't enter the race.

I think Burkhart learned some lessons in Fort O, and would probably do a good job. At least he wouldn't hold the county back. As far as his money, if Cobb can do the same thing, you'd better bet he will. It's all about being connected to the right people (Emerson Russell).

The work being done on Cloud Springs is absolutely necessary for Fort O growth, since Ringgold shut down their expansion on Battlefield Parkway. It is the right thing to do regardless of who owns the property.

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/04/2008 09:51:47 PM
What are the Post firemen going to do after May 15?

Where is the equipment going to be used?

I have not said Gass should lead a Consolidatd Dept. I have asked for details on what his problem is. If Consolidation ever takes place, I think an outside Fire Chief would be good. Truely outside, not Gass, not a relative of a FO/Post fireman.

The links were a pdf copy of Gass giving up his pharmacy licence and a copy of the news article saying Gass had pled guilty to a 2005 felony, theft by deception involving prescription drugs, got 5 years probation, $20,000 paid back to United Health Care, $6,000 in fines, and 200 hours of community service.

It would seem the Gass has already gotten his pharmacy licence back and his probation must end in 2010. As a first offender his record may be expunged after completion of probation.

Seemed at the time that he should have done time, but didn't. And the Catoosa volunteers kept voting him in as Chief. Who can over rule that?

Are you saying the felony is the reason for not wanting him as a Consolidated Chief? Or is he incompetent in his knowledge and ability as a fireman?

It really is pretty simple. The County FD is going to cover the County. FO and the Post just need to make their decision and life goes on. If they have said no. Done deal.

Show us some backup, links or proof that half the population and half the tax base is in that 25 sq. mile area.

ringgoldone
Your comments have some merit. While I support Bill Clark's good job in the past as Chairman, I do not support the idea of Sole Commissioner. I also know that Bill doesn't control Winters or Hill, but they do agree on a lot of issues because they have similar ideas of how the County should be run. Didn't all five Commissioners agree on hiring Mike Helton as County Manager? The future? Burkhart became a millionaire as Mayor (per his disclosures when he got beat by Cobb) and can't win in FO or the County. Don't know the other. Do you think a Democrat can win in a County Chairman position today?



 
fofr906
Comments: 12
Joined: 07/01/2007
05/04/2008 05:26:12 PM
catvoter im inpressed, you know a little bit. Just enough to be confused. Noone has suggested that the City of FO lead anything. Without POST the City has nothing. The POST is the Volunteers. The County owns 1 truck on this side of the County and that is a ladder truck bought from SPLOST in 1998. That is it. The City own a few assets and POST VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT INC. owns the rest.

You have to remember, even though the land mass serviced by FO/POST is definately smaller, it containes half the Counties population and over half the tax base.

You need to understand what a 3/9 is, the 9 is for only those area outside 5 road miles from a fire station or outside 1000 feet from a fire hydrant unless a department can prove to ISO that it 1) carries enough water on the first assignment of apparatus to maintain a constant water source or 2) carry enough large supply hose to make up the 1000 feet. The catch there is every fire pumper in the County must be equiped the same. More to it than just the 911 center, fire trucks, paid firemen and water pressure.
https://secure.sos.state.ga.us/mylicense%20weblookup/docs/2005_1673_rph017332_001.pdf
http://www.newschannel9.com/articles/gass_2186___article.html/county_fire.html

Check out the links above.

 
ringgoldone
Comments: 448
Joined: 07/24/2006
05/04/2008 07:49:24 AM
Wouldn't suggest that Fort O city government have anything to do with it. We are talking consolidation, which eventually will lead to a county-wide/metro government. One fire department. One police department. One group of leaders directing the county into the future, not trying to keep it in the past.

I have read about Gass' conduct in these consolidation meetings, which is enough to disqualify him as a leader. What, in your opinion, is right with him? What enables him to lead a county wide fire department?

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/04/2008 01:19:11 AM
FO leading the County?
FO is the tail of a small dog. Post has the manning and the equipment (mostly given to them by the County).
FO is 13 sq. miles of the 162 sq. mile Catoosa County. Even the total FO/Post fire department current area is only 25 of the 162 sq. miles.

FO politics is one sucker punch after the other. Wild eyed City Managers, one after the other. Police Chiefs come and go (even though just about all of them were very good - including present).

Think about it. This blog is hung up talking about ISO ratings within the County. (FO ISO 3 staying put is up to the FO City Council to fund, no more County subsidy.)

What will affect the ISO in the County? Nothing that FO has control over.
Communications: 911 run and controlled by the County.

Equipment: FO has one truck of their own. All other equipment in the County is to be provided by the County and SPLOST money, controlled by the County.

Water Pressure: Won't change in the future except for improvement provided by the County SPLOST, mostly through the Catoosa Utility District.

According to the paper, FO and the Post were geting $390,000 per year to provide service to about 12 sq. miles of County area. An area equal to a space the equivalent of 3 miles wide by 4 miles long. Spread out certainly, but a very small area. (Only 7% of the County)

With charges of $390,000 for 12 sq. miles now ($32,000 per sq. mile), would the FO/Post charge the County an extra $4,800,000 a year for the rest of the County if they ran the fire department?

Several bloggers here seem to have inside good info on the Post firemen. What are the Post firemen going to do and what is the Post going to do with the equipment after May 15? Does FO have a plan to improve on the ISO 3 within the City Limits?

Lets move on. The scare tactic of saying insurance rates are going up doesn't work because the insurance underwriters wouldn't use a change in ISO ratings for at least one year per www.ISO.com. The County can hold the current ratings and probably improve.

Remember only the City limits of FO has the ISO 3. The rest of the current FO/Post area outside in the County is a split rating of 3/9.

Seems like the County has gone past the point of starting a "plan", they are implementing the Plan and it seems good.

Still looking for facts, details, and specific examples on what is wrong with Gass as Chief.

Still looking for what is different between what the studies said and what the County is doing.




 
ringgoldone
Comments: 448
Joined: 07/24/2006
05/03/2008 06:50:07 PM
Consolidating government and its services could be a good thing - if it is done right. Since Fort O (based on the ISO rating) seems to know how to do it right, why not let them lead the Catoosa County Fire Department?

If we take the best of what we have in this county and build our government and services around it, everyone would benefit. And it would take less taxes.

Just have to get all the egos out of the way.

 
fofire8
Comments: 11
Joined: 07/02/2007
05/03/2008 11:39:26 AM
One other thing--- the county wants to close FO stations 8 and 10. Why? There are 3 or 4 stations (CCFR stations 2, 4, 5, and if you count Station 6 after 6 pm when the day crew leaves) in the county that DO NOT run calls at all---why would you close those stations that do? Let's see a list of volunteers and responses from these stations and compare the two departments' call lists. Who can't run a department cheaper if half of the stations aren't answering alarms?
I appreciate the interest in this blog-this issue truly affects the entire county.

 
fofire8
Comments: 11
Joined: 07/02/2007
05/03/2008 09:14:35 AM
Why would the county commissioners previously ask to hire an outside chief? Ask that question to former members of CCFR and their feelings about the organization. Ask what happens when you run against the chief? When the newer paid personnel were hired there was going to be a supervisor to be in charge of them that answered to only the county manager. Apparently Chief Gass pitched a fit and got his way because he is now over the paid crews. Didn't Chief Gass threaten after they posted for a chief to take HIS men and form Ringgold Fire Department and leave the county unprotected? Does anybody realize that the volunteer side of CCFR is, like the Post, an incorporated entity, sponsored like the POST by the county taxes? It is assumed that they are the county fire department because of their name. FOFR tries to run its organization based on NFPA and State of Georgia standards and have documentation for such. Does CCFR? As far as tax dollars, don't people who live outside FO city and is covered by FOFR pay county taxes too? Shouldn't all taxpayers enjoy the same ISO rating as FO? Yes we all should, but what has changed for the rest of the county in the last 10 years-nothing. Where is your progressive fire department? It is true that the only changes made were made by the county commissioners, but why would they not recognize the forward thinking of FOFR when deciding on merger issues
And about the monies paid to POST members---we have a point system where you receive pay based on your individual participation in calls, training, equipment / apparatus maintenance checks, and public programs such as fire prevention. I believe that most make less than $1000.00 per year Would you work many hours for that? I'm not even sure what the formula is because I DON"T DO IT FOR THE MONEY!

 
ringgoldone
Comments: 448
Joined: 07/24/2006
05/03/2008 07:44:33 AM
No personal issues with Bill. Just don't like the way he works to build his team. Ron Gracy is a man of high character and would not bend to join Clark's team.

The thing about him wanting to be King is his desire to be the sole commissioner, and he is running the county as such with his team of 3. That is the last thing that a growing county like Catoosa needs.

We need 5 leaders who can think for themselves.

We see how well Bill does in the primary now that he has alienated most of the firemen in the County.

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/02/2008 10:45:59 PM
What was in the two studies that is different from what the County is trying to do? Didn't both studies recommend consolidation?

I haven't heard the details of what the studies said. Did the studies say FO and the Post should not consolidate?

I thought the Post brought up the pay formula as one of the issues in the meetings conducted by Hill. I don't think they liked the idea of losing the extra money they get over the Catoosa volunteers.

The Post people keep talking about the County taking those areas you mention down. If the ISO rating is based on communications, water pressure, and manning/equipment; then it would appear a lot doesn't change due to the County taking over those areas.

Communication stays the same, they already run the 911 system don't they?

Water pressure certainly doesn't change. The plan of the Catoosa Utility District to tie more main lines together to back up water supplies from each of the many different water companies that service Catoosa County can only improve the water pressure ratings.

Then it is manning and equipment that is key. The County is adding a tremendous amount of equipment via the SPLOST. The County has not asked for the return of any of the equipment the County purchased for the Post in the past. (But that begs the question of what FO/Post is going to do with all the existing equipment now at Old Mill and Mack Springs that are being closed. If they bring it all to the FO city limits, where will they store it?)

Even if the Post calls for an immediate review by ISO, the County has one year to correct any problems in the old Class 3 areas before the rating changes.

The seemingly best future potential for improving the other areas of the County from the existing ISO 5 to a 4 or even to a ISO 3, is to continue having manned stations expanded by the County Fire Department, even if the FO/Post stay in FO.

Can anyone detail what the problem with Gass is? The County volunteers elected him and could remove him if they wanted. Those volunteers are just as smart, trained, and good public servants as the Post volunteers aren't they?

Last item. Why would you say the County wants to lower the standards of FO/Post? If they consolodated there would be no change in any current ISO ratings anywhere and the potential would be there for improvements to ISO 3 in a bigger area of the County.



 
fofr906
Comments: 12
Joined: 07/01/2007
05/02/2008 09:23:28 PM
Clark is just doing what he thinks right, only thing I can say is atleast this commission is trying to follow through. Not according to any of the studies, but anyway. What this whole thing boils down to is that FO/POST is not willing to lower its standards when the County should be wanting to bring the rest of the County up instead of bringing Boynton, Westside, Lakeview and Duncan Park down and then try to bring them up even. It's not going to happen.

Money has nothing to do with anything except that the money that the County was paying FortO and POST for the service that is being provided is a bargin. The Volunteers do not care if they get a dime or not, they don't do it for the money and it is an insult to every Volunteer in the Country (about 750,000) to insinuate such.

Look this County has some great firefighters and Fire Officers and has some great potential. But to take the County fire service to the next level it takes a visionary leader with the skill set to manage and lead in a modern fire service. When you need an electrician you don't call a plumber.

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/02/2008 08:30:28 PM
Seems like everyone wants to blame Gass or Clark for the perceived problems of consolidating the fire departments.

What is Gass doing or has done that makes it impossible to consolidate? Isn't Gass just over the County volunteers by way of those volunteers voting him to be chief? Why do the majority of the Catoosa volunteers have confidence in his leadership, but not the Post volunteers?

Are the Post volunteers upset about joining the Catoosa volunteers because the Catoosa volunteers don't make as much money in a year as the Post people? Is money the issue? The Post volunteers get paid on a formula, what is it? The Catoosa volunteers don't get paid, except for an annual stipend or little bonus as long as they have volunteered and trained for enough hours. Right?

Is money the issue? I don't know that it is, but if not, what are the real issues?

Why is Clark an issue? The consolidation was talked about over 10 years ago and haven't these 5 commissioners been pretty much in agreement that consolidation is the way to go? Even FO's Commissioner Ken Marks has supported it hasn't he?

I hope again that ringgoldone can find the Chrisian compassion to forgive and forget whatever Clark did to him in the past. Always the negative. ringgoldone has been on Clark's case on every issue and must have some personal issues. Always calls him "King", but the issues require a majority of the 5 Commissioners.

Clark and the majority of the Commissioners seem to have done a good job over the last few years, particularly the last 2 years since Gracy got off the Board of Commissioners. Clark voted against the big tax increase 3 years ago, good job.

Plus a good County Manager like Mike Helton can continue the good organization.





 
fofire8
Comments: 11
Joined: 07/02/2007
05/02/2008 06:28:17 PM
GREAT---Catoosa County schools were getting about $.83 out of every tax dollar (according to a local politician running for office a couple of years ago), so now they want me to vote on a SPLOST to fund that too? Also, if the ISO stats are correct, and the current County fire stations aren't five road miles apart, how many stations will they have to build to be ready for ISO inspection to lower the rating? I can't believe the county commissioners can't or won't negotiate a more agreeable deal to keep fire services the way they are, with a better chance of improving them in the near future. If they want to consolidate, which can be a better way to improve services and costs, why would you consider keeping the same service management that hasn't changed much in 15 years, other than what costing more tax dollars? They had originally took the heat (no pun there) for advertising for an outside fire chief, saying that is the way to go then. What happened? If you had to hire a company to do a service for you, would you choose simply because the price is right, or would you pay more knowing the quality is better? Ok, let's forget the ISO thing. How much was paid in tax dollars for 2 studies to be done to evaluate fire service, and which one was utilized? NEITHER!

 
ringgoldone
Comments: 448
Joined: 07/24/2006
05/02/2008 05:24:38 PM
Buildings/Equipment - new fire stations around the county. But I heard someone from the Catoosa County office once say that when all the building is done (if that ever happens), they could cover the school budget with the E-SPLOST and do away with their portion of the property taxes. That would be salaries,etc. - non capital expenditures.

Also heard Clark declare he was looking at lowering the millage rate again. Who knows what he has in mind.

 
fofr906
Comments: 12
Joined: 07/01/2007
05/02/2008 04:24:43 PM
SPLOST funds can only be used for capital purchases such as buildings, vehicles, equipment, water & sewer etc. Salaries will have to come from raised taxes. May 15 the County will lose 70 + Volunteers that currently service the West side of the County. Boy, that sure seems like making things better to me......

 
fofire8
Comments: 11
Joined: 07/02/2007
05/02/2008 12:36:34 PM
I don't think SPLOST funds can be used for salaries, can they?

 
ringgoldone
Comments: 448
Joined: 07/24/2006
05/02/2008 12:09:18 PM
I believe I heard that they are counting on the next SPLOST to take care of that, IF it passes. The only way I will vote for it is if Clark doesn't qualify to run today or gets defeated in the primary. He has alienated a whole bunch of folks in the County in his effort to keep the county under his kingly rule.

 
fofire8
Comments: 11
Joined: 07/02/2007
05/02/2008 11:53:41 AM
Another point to ponder---where is the monies coming from to fund this new fire service? I don't think I have heard anything about taxes being raised to provide for the merger costs, let alone what the county has already spent in hiring full time fire personnel for a few stations. I agree that having full time personnel at the stations is great, but expensive. I don't know the their total benefits cost, but 30 people at $25,000 per is $750,000- just for yearly pay. That is more than either FOFR or Catoosa Fire individual budget. As Lee 2854 stated, that is only for staffing 3 stations, leaving 3 staffed with volunteers. There are few volunteers at the remaining stations (including station 6) at night after 6 pm, so most of the evening calls are handled by Catoosa stations 1 (volunteer crew) and 3 (paid crew), which are located considerably father away from the other districts, meaning longer response times even though 1 and 3 are staffed. To fund fully staffed stations would cost us taxpayers a temendous amount of money (in the millions). Has anyone put forth a plan including tax increases to pay for this? Yes there is pride involved with both sides for consolidation, but what about integrity, care for the people we protect through fire and medical services, and concern for providing cost effective solutions? Isn't that the primary issue?

 
fofr906
Comments: 12
Joined: 07/01/2007
05/02/2008 09:43:24 AM
I'm proud to see someone smart enough to investigate for themselves. FO/POST hasn't said that the rating will change immediatly, beause you are right, ISO will have to come back. What everyone does not realize and what isomitigation.com is very vague about is that May 16th when POST sends the letter to ISO advising them that they no longer service these areas, ISO will come back on thier own without being requested because there has been a change in service provider.

Catvoter if you have documentation of the Counties PLAN please post it so we all are aware. Improving the service for the whole County is a great idea, the problem is the County has NO ONE who knows how to plan, organize, implement and evaluate the work and process to lower the ISO rating. You just don't hire a few people and buy a few trucks wave a magic wand and POW lower rating.

Thae fact is, if they did the Counties current rating would not be 18 YEARS OLD.

Good Day.........

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
05/02/2008 01:11:45 AM
The County seems to have the Plan and they are following it well. Good.

If fofr906 has the knowledge of the Post people, I wish they would confirm the facts of the procedure in changing ISO ratings for an area.

The comments that insurance premiums are changing May 15 are not responsible statements.

The Catoosa County News should include better facts in their articles as well.

The ISO team doesn't do a reinspection of an area until they are requested to come in by the authorities.

When a formal inspection takes place and a rating has a chance of being degraded, the ISO review clearly details the specific items needed to hold or improve that rating.

THEN THE AUTHORITIES RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT AREA HAVE ONE YEAR TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM AREAS BEFORE ANY RATING IS CHANGED.

THE INSURANCE COMPANIES DO NOT CHANGE THEIR INSURANCE PREMIUMS DURING THAT YEAR BECAUSE THE ISO RATING HAS NOT CHANGED YET.
source: http://www.isomitigation.com/ppc/0000/ppc0011.html

Check www.iso.com or call ISO at 800-888-4476
http://www.isomitigation.com/ppc/0000/ppc0010.html

Let's give this consolidation plan a chance. But it is certainly up to FO/Post to decide if they want to join the County. They can work their own Plan if they choose. No problem.

As a County resident, I like the County Plan to improve the entire County.





 
fofr906
Comments: 12
Joined: 07/01/2007
04/30/2008 10:15:24 PM
Consolidation is not the issue, the lack of an equitable plan is the problem. POST said from the beginning that consolidation was the way it should go. POST was ask to go under the Counties Purchase Order system, that was agreed to, then was told that was just the first step. Sure it is the first step but the County doesn't have a clue what the next step is suppose to be.

The Consolidation Committee was set up to fail from the beginning, Don't get me wrong, Mr. Hill is a good man but he was not strong enough to chair that committee. When Mr. Gass started pitching his temper tantrums he should have been ask to leave. The County has been using smoke and mirrors the whole time about the ISO issue. They keep listening to the wrong people as they have for the last 15+ years.

FO/POST Officials have offered numerous times to assist the County in preparing for an ISO inspection. Makes sense, they lowered thiers. Common sense would tell someone to retain the help of the people who have the knowledge and experience. But nope, they don't contribute to the election funds or bully and intimidate people, so they are rejected.

POST told the Commissioners you want a Countywide service, great when are you hiring the Career County Fire Chief with the education and credentials to lead a service into the future? Still no answer and still no agreement. Citizens don't take it from the paper, the news, this soundoff, your buddy or your neighbor who thinks they know something. Investigate yourself. Call your insurance company and ask them the price difference from a Class 3 to a Class 5. All you over on Farming Rock and the surrounding areas, that are more than 5 miles from the closest County fire station guess what??? Class 9. Most insurance companies wouldn't even insure you if they knew the truth.

May 15th D DAY, Boynton, Duncan Park, Lakeview, Westside. No more ISO Class 3, Post has come to the table many times to negotiate with the County but POST can't meet thier adjenda. The County has current plans to throw up a tempoary (carport) next to the Westside voting presinct to place a fire truck and house the firefighters in the voting presinct itsself. The County has already ask the school not to schedule anymore functions there and the others who were scheduled, they were cancelled. Guess where the firefighters are coming from?? Station 3 from Hwy 41. Station 3 will be Volunteer again. They have no plan and noone capable of developing one. And POST will not lower its standards just to put a couple feathers in a Commissioners hat.

It is a shame that the citizens will have to pay the price for the arrogance of a few.

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
04/29/2008 11:20:41 PM
lee - good comments, thanks

I think the ISO rating has to do with a house being within 5 miles of a manned station, not that stations being 5 miles apart. That would mean stations may be as much as 10 miles apart and the house in the middle would be OK.

Obviously the ISO is also concerned with a lot of other things like number of feet a house is from a hydrant, water pressure, equipment available, and so on.

Dewayne Hill was on the Judy ONeal show some time ago. I thought the manning plan for a consolidated fire department was to man all the stations, current and new stations, with full-time firemen in the day and then ask for the Post and Catoosa volunteers to man at night. To get full coverage all the time was their plan. The County has already hired more full-time firemen. I understand some of the volunteers have taken some of these full-time jobs.

The size of Catoosa County, one of the 6 smallest counties in GA, would sound like a benefit to gaining better ISO ratings. Fewer miles, more dense a population rate, fewer stations needed.

I think the issue has a lot to do with FO officials. Apparently FO was using some of the $480,000 the County was giving the FO/Post for taking care of County residents, to help support the residents in the City limits as well. That not only would have been wrong, it borders on illegal since the money comes from insurance premium rebates and is required by GA law to be used for fire services only in the same areas that paid the premium. For example the rebates FO got directly from the State via insurance rebates from FO residents, could only be used for those FO resident fire services. If they were not misusing the funds, why are they complaining so hard about losing the funds?

Everyone in the County knows the history of Chief Gass. For us non-volunteer firemen, the hard part is to understand why the volunteers keep electing him Chief if he is incompetent. IF he is.

I'm guessing that the County Commissioners will have to decide who will be the final Chief over a Consolidated system in the long run. This thing won't happen fast, but in the meantime if calm heads work together they can continue the current fire coverages, keep the same ISO ratings until improvements can be made.

My comment added the favorable rating of Hill. He seems to keep his head when ALL the Chiefs around him are losing theirs. His quiet manner on the Judy Oneal show made him look like a good negotiator between all the parties.

If the County did not follow a path like this through consolidation, how would the non-FO/Post areas ever get improved eventually to an ISO 3. It may take years and years, but consolidation needs to start.



 
lee2854
Comments: 18
Joined: 09/07/2007
04/29/2008 09:19:09 AM
First of all...nope not in the City of FO...I am in the County portion that ALREADY has a 3 rating which means my current level of fire protection is considered better than yours. I have done quite a bit of research and digging on this issue and have found out some things you may find of interest:

First of all....NOT one of the current County fire stations are within 5 miles of each other...that is going to hurt their rating.

Second of all...their full-time personnel only cover 6 am- 6pm and are only in stations 1, 3, & 6. That leaves Keith, Woodstation, and Blackstock without full-time coverage... it also leaves Ringgold and Three Notch Rd area without night time coverage. So how is this better? Yeah station 3 on Highway 41 has crews 24 hours but one station for a county our size isn't very good. Manpower isn't that big of a percentage of ISO and I don't think it will help at all having firefighters leaving most of the rural areas without coverage.

Third of all....I don't think it has anything to do with Fort Oglethorpe officials. I also don't think it has to do with egos of Fort Oglethorpe firemen...you can think that all you want since you are already covered by CCFR you must not know what you are missing.

Fourth of all...they will not hire a county fire chief. They will keep the chief they currently have and have had for over a decade and the county department hasn't bettered it self since he has been in. He has no qualifications of being a fire chief and is actually a joke of one if you ask me. So a countywide fire chief would be great. ONLY IF THEY HIRED A QUALIFIED ONE!!! Chief Chuck Gass is NOT capable of being a fire chief over the entire county. I guess he would be if you want our county fire services to become the laughing stock of the state as our politics have been.....

I also didn't even say anything about Hill and hope he REALIZES his HOME IS NOT COVERED BY FULL-TIME CREWS!! They are not in Keith!!!

If the County would lose their false hope in Chief Chuck Gass then maybe the departments could work together. Consolidation isn't the enemy....it's the plan towards consolidation that is taking place.

 
catvoter
Comments: 100
Joined: 08/10/2007
04/28/2008 04:57:42 PM
lee,

FO/Post needs to join and consolidate, then nothing should change for the worse and some areas may get better with more County manned stations.

Are you in the City Limits of FO? If you are, they say it won't change even if FO/Post goes it alone.

If we are in the County, a 3 could go to a 5 until the County would get rerated for a particular area. I'm in a 5 area of the County now and hope the Consolidation will bring the 3 to us in the future.

In the long run the County will be a better rating over more of the area.

Leave it to FO to screw it up if they can't work with the County!

Too many egos to feed all over.

They should bring in one County wide chief from outside to run the Consolidated Fire Dept.

How can such good public servants and volunteers that will go into a fire for us, end up just thinking of their own kingdom, and not see the public good in the future for Consolidation?

Seems like Hill is a good man and wants to bring them together.





 
lee2854
Comments: 18
Joined: 09/07/2007
04/28/2008 01:59:54 PM
I have heard that County officials say our insurance will not go up. They have stated we will NOT lose our ISO Class 3 (which lowered my insurance a few years back).

I called my insurance company and if CCFR begins coverage over my house and the county stops FOFR from covering it my insurance will go up $100. Just think how this would affect all the citizens....

I began wondering about it and did some google searches to find out about ISO and I found this site

http://www.fofdfire.com/ISOclass.htm

It's some interesting reading!!!

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