Jeannie Babb Taylor: Confederate flag represents both heritage and hate
Wednesday March 5, 2008 1:49:52pm
In recent weeks, news outlets have carried the story of a battle between the city of Ringgold and “Southern rights” groups. I use quotes because these groups seem to be concerned about the rights of only some Southerners — namely those who are white and cling to the notion that “the South’s gonna do it again.” Their concern for the rights of black Southerners is particularly underwhelming.
The American Civil War is unique in that the federal government sought to restore rather than destroy the rebels. The winners chose to honor the losers. It’s true that plenty of exploitation went on following the Civil War, including political corruption and “carpetbaggers” who came down from the North to prey on the disaffected Southerners and snap up failing estates. Still, the Union pursued an overarching theme of reconciliation. Men who raised arms against their country were granted a presidential pardon. Even the generals, who resigned their position with the Union army in order to fight against it, were pardoned in full.
The United States immortalizes soldiers who fought on both sides of the conflict, erecting monuments in honor of both Confederate and Union victories. As such, the Confederacy has been venerated rather than condemned in American history.
It’s no surprise that many Georgians still cling to the image of a noble Confederacy. Georgia is the home of die-hards. We value independence. We mistrust Big Government. We are proud and we are stubborn, and we consider it an honor when someone tells us so.
We are also a family-oriented people, bound to revere the blood that once spilled on the grass, yet still flows through our own veins. It is natural that we want to honor and defend our Confederate ancestors — who probably never even owned slaves, and fought valiantly for what they believed was right.
As Lincoln famously stated when dedicating the battlefield at Gettysburg, “It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.” And we do. Thousands of acres of fields and monuments, numerous museums, battalions of re-enactors, along with dozens of country tunes, ghost stories, and an entire genre of literature ensure that we will never forget.
But is it altogether fitting and proper to continue flying the Confederate flag — and indeed, not just any Confederate flag but the actual battle flag — over public buildings in Georgia today? Can white Georgians claim the right to keep waving that emblem in the face of other Georgians who experienced attacks and demonstrations, feared lynching, and faced every kind of discrimination?
Perhaps we can, legally — but that does not mean we should. I applaud the City of Ringgold for taking a stand back in 2005 when the city council voted 3-2 to remove the flag. I applaud the city again today for standing firm against pressure and even lawsuits from radical extremists.
As for historical accuracy, the city has done its homework and determined that the blue and white flag of Gen. Patrick Cleburne was the flag flown at the depot during the Civil War. At the Battle of Ringgold Gap, no flag was flying; it was an ambush.
If historical authenticity is the goal, the city already has the right flag flying. But what if the goal is something else? Consider the battle over Georgia’s state flag, for example.
Those who pine for “the real Georgia flag” are not aiming for historical accuracy. The flag of 1956 had never before been a Georgia state flag. In fact, no previous Georgia flag featured the Confederate battle cross. The flag of 1956 was introduced as an act of resistance against Civil Rights progress — especially Brown v. Board of Education, which declared segregated education unlawful. Adding the Confederate battle cross to the Georgia state flag was clearly a slap in the face of black Georgians, and many still feel its sting.
Ironically, the United Daughters of the Confederacy spoke against the adoption of the 1956 flag, warning that it would cause strife. They upheld the then-current Georgia flag as a more pure commemoration of the Confederacy. In fact, the pre-1956 flag was almost a replica of the “stars and bars” flown as the first national flag of the Confederacy. The Perdue flag that we fly today is also based closely on that Confederate flag.
If Georgians ever want a historically accurate flag that does not stir up racial tensions, one is available. The original Georgia flag depicted the state seal on a field of deep blue — no stars, no bars, and no battle emblems.
Does the Confederate battle flag represent heritage or hatred? The answer is yes. It represents a heritage that included hatred. Humans were bought and sold like livestock — and our culture declared that such practices were condoned or even mandated by God. Hatred also reigned during the 50’s (and before and after) when crosses were burned and bombs were detonated in Catoosa County. Hatred still clings to the Southern culture today. Hatred is not always passionate and fiery. It may manifest in simple disregard. Hatred may say, “This is my right, and I don’t care who it hurts.”
For some people, waving that rebel flag is a way to curse the present times when they must compete alongside people of color in the job market. Their romanticism of the Old South knows no bounds. It’s as if these people watched “Gone with the Wind” and believed that life was really like that. They imagine debutante parties on big plantations, black slaves who loved their bonds and were considered part of the master’s family — well, the cotton-picking part of the family anyway.
Perhaps these would-be Confederates imagine that if the North had not intervened, they would be standing on a balcony with a woman in a big hoop skirt while a black person stood by silently fanning them, like a human appliance. Of course, this reality existed only for a few. The truth is that there were as many poor white people in Georgia as there were black slaves.
If these “Sons of Confederates” want to get back the Good Ole Days, they ought to climb into their overalls and start picking cotton. That’s what most of our Southern ancestors did. They worked the land, they scraped by, and they were lucky if they had a pair of shoes on their feet. In many ways, their life was not much different than the black slaves who worked the fields of the rich. But at least they were free.
The rest of us are happy to honor dead Americans on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line — once in a while and with historical perspective. We can appreciate the ideals behind the struggle and the bravery of those involved without condoning the more sinister agendas that propelled both sides into battle. We know the history, and we have no desire to turn back the clock.
For those who insist on flying the Confederate flag — just fly it on your own property. Fly the Bonnie Blue secession flag bearing a single star. Fly the battle flag with St. Andrew’s cross. Fly the 1956 segregation flag. Fly a swastika if you prefer. But do not pretend that your actions don’t hurt or anger some of your neighbors, and embarrass the rest of us.
Jeannie Babb Taylor is a local business leader and author. She also teaches Sunday school, educates her children at home, and engages in Georgia politics. Jeannie may be contacted at jeannie@babb.com, or you can leave a public comment on her blog at JeannieBabbTaylor.com..
The American Civil War is unique in that the federal government sought to restore rather than destroy the rebels. The winners chose to honor the losers. It’s true that plenty of exploitation went on following the Civil War, including political corruption and “carpetbaggers” who came down from the North to prey on the disaffected Southerners and snap up failing estates. Still, the Union pursued an overarching theme of reconciliation. Men who raised arms against their country were granted a presidential pardon. Even the generals, who resigned their position with the Union army in order to fight against it, were pardoned in full.
The United States immortalizes soldiers who fought on both sides of the conflict, erecting monuments in honor of both Confederate and Union victories. As such, the Confederacy has been venerated rather than condemned in American history.
It’s no surprise that many Georgians still cling to the image of a noble Confederacy. Georgia is the home of die-hards. We value independence. We mistrust Big Government. We are proud and we are stubborn, and we consider it an honor when someone tells us so.
We are also a family-oriented people, bound to revere the blood that once spilled on the grass, yet still flows through our own veins. It is natural that we want to honor and defend our Confederate ancestors — who probably never even owned slaves, and fought valiantly for what they believed was right.
As Lincoln famously stated when dedicating the battlefield at Gettysburg, “It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.” And we do. Thousands of acres of fields and monuments, numerous museums, battalions of re-enactors, along with dozens of country tunes, ghost stories, and an entire genre of literature ensure that we will never forget.
But is it altogether fitting and proper to continue flying the Confederate flag — and indeed, not just any Confederate flag but the actual battle flag — over public buildings in Georgia today? Can white Georgians claim the right to keep waving that emblem in the face of other Georgians who experienced attacks and demonstrations, feared lynching, and faced every kind of discrimination?
Perhaps we can, legally — but that does not mean we should. I applaud the City of Ringgold for taking a stand back in 2005 when the city council voted 3-2 to remove the flag. I applaud the city again today for standing firm against pressure and even lawsuits from radical extremists.
As for historical accuracy, the city has done its homework and determined that the blue and white flag of Gen. Patrick Cleburne was the flag flown at the depot during the Civil War. At the Battle of Ringgold Gap, no flag was flying; it was an ambush.
If historical authenticity is the goal, the city already has the right flag flying. But what if the goal is something else? Consider the battle over Georgia’s state flag, for example.
Those who pine for “the real Georgia flag” are not aiming for historical accuracy. The flag of 1956 had never before been a Georgia state flag. In fact, no previous Georgia flag featured the Confederate battle cross. The flag of 1956 was introduced as an act of resistance against Civil Rights progress — especially Brown v. Board of Education, which declared segregated education unlawful. Adding the Confederate battle cross to the Georgia state flag was clearly a slap in the face of black Georgians, and many still feel its sting.
Ironically, the United Daughters of the Confederacy spoke against the adoption of the 1956 flag, warning that it would cause strife. They upheld the then-current Georgia flag as a more pure commemoration of the Confederacy. In fact, the pre-1956 flag was almost a replica of the “stars and bars” flown as the first national flag of the Confederacy. The Perdue flag that we fly today is also based closely on that Confederate flag.
If Georgians ever want a historically accurate flag that does not stir up racial tensions, one is available. The original Georgia flag depicted the state seal on a field of deep blue — no stars, no bars, and no battle emblems.
Does the Confederate battle flag represent heritage or hatred? The answer is yes. It represents a heritage that included hatred. Humans were bought and sold like livestock — and our culture declared that such practices were condoned or even mandated by God. Hatred also reigned during the 50’s (and before and after) when crosses were burned and bombs were detonated in Catoosa County. Hatred still clings to the Southern culture today. Hatred is not always passionate and fiery. It may manifest in simple disregard. Hatred may say, “This is my right, and I don’t care who it hurts.”
For some people, waving that rebel flag is a way to curse the present times when they must compete alongside people of color in the job market. Their romanticism of the Old South knows no bounds. It’s as if these people watched “Gone with the Wind” and believed that life was really like that. They imagine debutante parties on big plantations, black slaves who loved their bonds and were considered part of the master’s family — well, the cotton-picking part of the family anyway.
Perhaps these would-be Confederates imagine that if the North had not intervened, they would be standing on a balcony with a woman in a big hoop skirt while a black person stood by silently fanning them, like a human appliance. Of course, this reality existed only for a few. The truth is that there were as many poor white people in Georgia as there were black slaves.
If these “Sons of Confederates” want to get back the Good Ole Days, they ought to climb into their overalls and start picking cotton. That’s what most of our Southern ancestors did. They worked the land, they scraped by, and they were lucky if they had a pair of shoes on their feet. In many ways, their life was not much different than the black slaves who worked the fields of the rich. But at least they were free.
The rest of us are happy to honor dead Americans on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line — once in a while and with historical perspective. We can appreciate the ideals behind the struggle and the bravery of those involved without condoning the more sinister agendas that propelled both sides into battle. We know the history, and we have no desire to turn back the clock.
For those who insist on flying the Confederate flag — just fly it on your own property. Fly the Bonnie Blue secession flag bearing a single star. Fly the battle flag with St. Andrew’s cross. Fly the 1956 segregation flag. Fly a swastika if you prefer. But do not pretend that your actions don’t hurt or anger some of your neighbors, and embarrass the rest of us.
Jeannie Babb Taylor is a local business leader and author. She also teaches Sunday school, educates her children at home, and engages in Georgia politics. Jeannie may be contacted at jeannie@babb.com, or you can leave a public comment on her blog at JeannieBabbTaylor.com..
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Comments: 123 Joined: 10/03/2006 |
03/10/2008 09:13:35 PM
poptn, thanks for the invite. The website you linked to does not seem accurate. When did the NAACP come to Ringgold and demand we take down the Confederate flag against the citizens' will? The way I remember it, it was citizens of Ringgold who asked the city council to take it down. This was at a public meeting, not in secret. |
Comments: 416 Joined: 01/18/2006 |
03/09/2008 10:26:42 AM
I'm a Tyner alumni, 1962 (Rams & Hill toppers) and my younger brother went to Brainerd, 1964. My great grandfather was stationed at Tyner during the Civil War. I think the restaurant you're speaking of was the Brainerd Village Restaurant. We didn't eat out often but we went there a few times. My grandmother loved the Maypole restaurant down town, and Bee's in Rossville. Remember the peanut man at the Planters store and the Krystal next to the Greyhound bus station on Market St? Once I started driving, our favorite hangout was cruising the Rebel Drive Inn on Rossville Blvd. They had a "Lotta Burger" that was great. Oh, I used to race in the powder puff derby's at Boyd's International Speedway too. Speaking of pack rating, I still have my grandmothers cast iron skillets from Lodge Cast Iron in South Pittsburgh. She bought them in 1900, when she moved there from Texas. I don't pack them away though, I use them daily. I see nothing wrong with the Rebel flag either unless it is flown by a hate group. I have no use for people who hide under a sheet and try to use scare tactics on others. I just decided after 9/11 that Americans needed to stick together and that is why I fly only the American flag. |
Comments: 192 Joined: 11/05/2006 |
03/09/2008 05:32:05 AM
You are smart for taking the role of supervisor but you might get cold and frustrated just standing/watching and not getting involved. My wife says she is right there with me doing all the work supervising. I enjoy having her next to me. Make the work go easier having someone to talk with. I grew up in the Woodmore/Dalewood area. Went to Woodmore Elementary, Dalewood Jr. and Brainerd High. Graduated in 72. I was a Brainerd Rebel. Maybe that is why I see nothing wrong in the Rebel Flag. Although it is not the Brainerd Rebels anymore its the Brainerd Panthers. Seems they changed one symbol for another that has bad memories associated with them. I never saw it that way. Most of the trouble at Brainerd was from outside people. There would be adults yelling at us kids for supporting our sport teams. Remember on day in 69 when we got a huge motocade of kids from the school and went to East Ridge High and cleaned their plows in football that night. Flags were everywhere. Great times. I remember the drive in, Pan-o-ram, Black Angus and going to Shoney's every Friday and Saturday night to cruise the place. Can't remember the name of the place but there was a resturant on the corner of Brainerd Village where my parents took us to eat many times. In the booth was a juke box selection "thing". You put your money in and pushed the selection and hear your music. Miss that. Now you have to go to the machine and make your picks like at Pizza Hut or Logans. Twinkie, we probably ran into each other many times growing up. Envy your brothers talent. I read music put don't have my piano anymore. My best friend could hear a song and sit at the piano and almost play it perfectly. Had too many years of my fingers rapped taking piano lessons. But I can pick out a few songs on the "flooflaner" when no one is around. My wife called the piano a "flooflaner" when she was small. Have a great day, don't over work yourself today. |
Comments: 416 Joined: 01/18/2006 |
03/08/2008 10:08:50 PM
Jaydubya, I was a hairdresser for over 25 years, we just called them haircutting capes. If it is like the ones we used years ago, it had a pocket around the bottom to catch the hair. What's really strange is that, even though I am a "Southern Lady", I spent so many years doing hair that I absolutely hate to go to the beauty salon now and only go occasionally for hair cuts (sometimes I put it off until I have to cut it myself).From what I remember about the location of the General, there was a kind of porch attached to the back of the old Southern railway station and that is where the General was housed. From that porch you entered through big double doors into the main lobby of the Station. I don't believe it is ever silly to hang on to your memories and the items that remind you of them. We all need to know and remember where we came from. Yes, I do remember the Pioneer Bank, the trust fund that my children's grandmother left them was started with 15 shares of Pioneer Bank stock. I remember there were two theaters, the Rodgers and the Dixie. Do you remember the old Skyway drive inn that was blown away and only the marquee was left standing? Gone With the Wind was playing and they left it standing like that for years. It was Just before the bridge at the East Brainerd, Lee hwy, Brainerd Rd intersection. Sir Gooney Golf is there now. What area did you grow up in and where did you go to school? My brother got his start in music at the Peppermint Lounge on Lee highway and the teen club in Brainerd. He plays piano, guitar, sax, drums, harmonica and sings. He never had a lesson and cannot read music but he has played with some of the old rock and roll greats. He also played at the Pan-O-Ram, the 19th hole, Black Angus, Belmont, etc. He got all the talent in the family unless you include Willie Nelson whose grandfather and my grandmother were sister and brother. If I ever met Willie, I was too young to know who he was, of course back then, he probably didn't know who he was either. I always heard about the border dispute too. People would say part of Chattanooga was in Georgia. Well I'm going to get ready for bed, we've had a long day around here, out in the cold moving things to the barn. I mostly organized and supervised, how smart is that? Good Night! |
Comments: 192 Joined: 11/05/2006 |
03/08/2008 03:55:14 PM
Oh no Twinkie, I wasn't offended at all. I knew you were kidding. Sorry I sounded as if I were upset. Far from it. My kids tease me, at lest I will call it tease, that if I touched something once in my life I have to keep it no matter what it is. They say I'm a packrat. I don't think so, I just like to keep my memories with me. Someday I may not have any memories. The bid joke here at my house is my grandmother's plastic "apron" that she worn around her shoulders when she got her hair cut and permed. I know these "apron" have a name. All the women wear them in beauty shops. But my grandmother had severe arthritis that left her bedridden in her later years. She couldn't walk very well for many years and the lady from the bearty shop would stop by her house to do her hair. You know a true Southern lady had to have her hair done up right. Well, in my minds memory, I can still see her sitting on her wooden stool with this plastic cape around her getting her hair done. Of course I was young and thought this was such a production. I still have the wooden stool and the plastic cape. My kids, and I must admit my wife also, want to throw it out. They think I am dumb for holding on to something so silly. But I told them that each time I throw away or loose something from my grandparents, that it is just like loosing them all over again. My youngest son put his arm around my should and said if I wanted it that I sould keep it. I know he will be the first to throw it away when I am gone. I'm silly, I know, but that's how I feel. I was just teasing you about The General. It is in my memories also. But if I am remembering correctly, The General was housed somewhere else than at the Choo-Choo wasn't it? When it was gone they tore down the building that housed it. Do you remembe it better then I do? Seems the building was close to where the Rogers Theater was. I do remember seeing The General twice when I was a kid. It was awesome. Do you remember the Pioneer bank where Miller Plaza is now? Remember the bust of the pioneer out in front of the bank. Always thought that was Daniel Boone. He did have a coonskin cap on. Funny how The General brings back those memories. Please don't think you offended me. It takes much to offend me. Just don't talk about my kids or grandkids, now those are fighting words!!!!!! I have relatives that moved out to Texas around the time of The War Between the States. My cousin has a handwritten letter from one "aunt" that stayed here to her sister that went to Texas. In the letter she is asking how they are and how they tolerated the wagon ride to Texas. She inquires about the slaves that traveled with them. She ask about one female slave by name and ask her sister to give her a hug for her and to tell her she misses and loves her. Seems they were close. Not the picture you normally get about slave times. Evidently some of the slave family stayed here but were to join the rest of their family at a later date. It says something about the ones left here said to tell them they will be joining them soon and not to worry about them. I have no idea if they all reconnected or not. In my heart I want to say they did. I hope my family wasn't cruel to their slaves. It was bad enough that they owned human beings as it is. The family letters just seem to sound as if they were part of my family. Wish I knew more about who they were and what happened to everyone. Oh well, someday. Twinkie, I am so glad there is no snow. I don't do snow. I look at it in pictures but I don't want it around my house. Now if I didn't have to drive to work, and my electricity didn't cut out, and I stayed warm inside, and I could still take a warm bath, and I still had a way to cook food, then maybe I could tolerate snow. But as you well know, our wonderful North Georgia Electric goes out in a mild rain. Remember being without in 93 for a week, wouldn't want that again. I've heard about this boarder dispute since I was a kid. I live in Georgia but was born in Nashville and live most of my life in Chattanooga. But, I think it is dumb to try and change something now at this late date. Too late, so sorry. Atlanta needs to look somewhere else. Not fair to involve so many peoples lives by a few ELECTED folks in Atlanta. |
Comments: 3 Joined: 03/28/2006 |
03/08/2008 11:12:34 AM
ringgoldone Please see: BROTHERS of COLOUR http://www.thesouthernamerican.org/colour.html Also there will be a proud black Southron at the Ringgold flag rally... Mr. HK Edgerton a MAN SCV'ers call Friend and Brother! Come and meet this gracious gentleman and talk to him. Ringgold Georgia Confederate Flag Rally http://www.newconfederatepartisans.org/inviteringgold.html Tommy Aaron pop@comcast.net |
Comments: 416 Joined: 01/18/2006 |
03/08/2008 08:52:12 AM
By the way Jaydubya, have you been reading about the Georgia-Tennesse border dispute? Georgia wants part of the Tennessee river now. (Atlanta doesn't have enough water) . Imagine the cost to Georgia tax payers! |
Comments: 416 Joined: 01/18/2006 |
03/08/2008 08:45:33 AM
Jaydubya, what I said about the train was intended as a joke. I hated to see the train leave Chattanooga, but makeing an issue of it wouldn't have changed anything. My grandmother and I caught the train to Texas each summer to visit my great aunts and uncles. The General was set up in the station and I was facinated with it. You couldn't touch it because it was roped off but the shinny red paint and brass trim would have caught the eye of any child. The ceiling of the train station was another thing I loved, with all the moldings it was an eye catcher. My last trip to Texas was at the age of 11. I visited the Choo Choo as an adult numerous years ago but it wasn't the same with the General not there to sit watch over the station. I wasn't trying to offend you, we all have history the we like to feel proud of and most of us are interested in what our ancestors did. Big Foot Wallace was one of my greatgreat grandmothers cousins. He was a famous Texas Ranger and my grandmother talked about him visiting when she was a child and he brought Buffalo Bill Cody with him. I have a picture of them sitting around a table in front of the house playing cards with my great grandfather. My grandfather was deputy sheriff in Travis County (Austin) Texas until he was bushwhacked in 1900 (that's when they moved to Tennessee where his family was from). I have a picture of him with his long handlebar mustashe, sitting in front of the court house in his buggy. I've traced parts of my family back to the 15th century in England, of course the stories from my grandmother, who was Cherokee and Comache, had the most impact. By the way, my uncle who left Tennessee after he got caught making moonshine, moved to Oregon and worked for the railroad there until he retired. It's snowing in Georgia jaydubya, enjoy the day and stay warm. |
Comments: 192 Joined: 11/05/2006 |
03/08/2008 03:11:02 AM
Thanks Twinkie. But you are wrong about The General. When I was in the second grade it went through East Brainerd/Graysville area. My parents took my brother and I out to see The General. We placed pennies on the track and waited for the train to come down the track and flatten them out. Wish I still had those pennies. So see, I have squatters rights to The General. Just kidding. My grandfather was a big railroad guy. He had a framed litho of The General. I have it now. Real neat. Understand it's worth a few apples now. Folks just need to stay out of others business. And quit putting their morals/mores onto what they are doing. Look up the book "Prince Among Slaves". My gr-gr-gr-grandfather was in that book. Prince was an African prince that was captured and brought to America and sold into slavery. Long story short, my g-g-g-grandfather met him in Africa and was befriended by Prince. Then saw him in Natchez and tried to buy him to obtain his freedom. Went all the way to the Pres of the US to try to obtain his freedom. Great story. They re-enact the story in Natchez today. Prince did finially get his freedom only to die of malaria upon his return to Africa. I'm proud of that story. Glad I had a relative that acted on his beliefs. Anyway Maggie's right. There are more important things to be concerned over. |
Comments: 416 Joined: 01/18/2006 |
03/07/2008 10:40:58 PM
Jaydubya, I would never tell you what flag to fly. I fly the American flag because I am an American. I have uncles, brothers, cousins and my husband who fought under it. It's a bit like when Kennesaw took back the "Little General from Chattanooga (my hometown), a friend asked me how I felt about Georgia taking the train back. I told her it really didn't bother me because I didn't ride that train. |
Comments: 615 Joined: 07/24/2006 |
03/07/2008 05:38:06 PM
"KKK used the Bible and the Cross to defend their actions" - I have heard more than my share of preachers (KJV only) twist the scriptures to try to prove that African-Americans were cursed by God and were supposed to be slaves. Those kind of preachers don't deserve the pulpits they stand behind. |
Comments: 100 Joined: 11/16/2007 |
03/07/2008 04:21:37 PM
what a lot of people have either forgotten, never knew, or just dont want to admit is that nearly all of the slaves that were brought over were purchased from slave owners in africa or from the tropics. in other words, they were already slaves before they got here. granted, a lot were born into slavery and were traded as slaves when they were old enough to work. and no i am not saying that slavery was right. it wasnt. but, its time that the whites are stopped being blamed for all the slavery that took place so long ago. it was just as much the fault of the black slave owners that sold them to the traders. slavery exsisted for thousands of years all around the world. people of all colors have been held as slaves at one time or another. like what has been said earlier, there were many, many free black soldiers that fought for the confederacy. there were more slaves held in the northern states than in the south. ending slavery was only a tool that was used to further the success of the nothern aggression. lincoln stated himself that he would end the war immediately if it was only about slavery. |
Comments: 1542 Joined: 01/08/2006 |
03/07/2008 04:13:49 PM
Well spoken, Diogenes. I like that, "The United States of the Offended" My goodness I am offended by those that are offended. Wonder if I could file a lawsuit and pay off my mortgage!!!!!LOL |
Comments: 698 Joined: 01/31/2006 |
03/07/2008 04:11:06 PM
You can say what you want about the South, but you hardly ever hear of anyone retiring, and moving up North. Good point about the American flag possibly being offensive to Native Americans. They weren't enslaved, but they were almost completely wiped out, had their culture, and almost everything else, taken from them. Maybe they should launch a protest, or maybe even lawsuits to reclaim their land, keep us from flying a flag of hatred, and do something to remove the Mt. Rushmore carvings from the sacred mountains of the Sioux. Since we have become the United States of the Offended, there are those who would re-write history, or tell us to be ashamed of things done by others in the past. There are, in any culture, historical tragedies, but nobody can change the past, and any kind of reparation doesn't really make sense to me, because the people who really might have deserved such, and the people who might have owed such, are all long dead. |
Comments: 1542 Joined: 01/08/2006 |
03/07/2008 04:06:12 PM
Hmm, I think the Texas part outweighs the Yankee part, we will just consider you a full southerner!!!!LOL Don't tell anyone, but my fathers family started out at Yankees!!!! My great-great grandfather immigrated from England to Canada and then into the United States via Michigan. My great-grandfather was raised there, but being an extremely wise man, moved to Tn. where he met and married my great-grandmother, who has a lot of Cherokee ancestors. The majority of my ancestors are of English lineage, but have some Irish, Welch, and even some Viking ancestors. Guess I am just a mutt!!!!!!By the way, did you get your milk and bread??? Walmart wasn't too bad when I was there earlier. |
Comments: 401 Joined: 11/14/2007 |
03/07/2008 03:19:55 PM
Maggie: Not sure how this works, but I think I'm only 1/2 Yankee since Mom was from Ft. Worth, TX. LOL. |
Comments: 1542 Joined: 01/08/2006 |
03/07/2008 03:12:56 PM
Had to go get my grandson off the bus, so didn't get to finish what I wanted to say. There is another minority in this country that has also been heavily mistreated and that is the Native Indians. Perhaps they could view our American Flag as a battle flag, since it was always carried by the calvary in all battles with the Indians. Furthermore, slaves weren't unique to the south and it was those "darn" yankees (sorry Hoosier) who brought slaves to America in the first place!!!!! My goodness, this dead horse needs to rest in peace, we have more important issues to worry about than the conferate flag. A young man is being buried today and his family is grieving, as is the family of the boy who has been charged in his death. We need to be concerned with the future of our nation rather then continuing to fight the war between the states. |
Comments: 192 Joined: 11/05/2006 |
03/07/2008 03:05:28 PM
Mostly I agree with everyone so far. But, my relatives have fought in every war this great country has been in starting with the American Revolutionary War. And even before that, fighting against the American Natives of our country. The shame of the White Man began there. I have American Native blood and I have ancestors that fought in the War Between the States. And according to my genealogy, my ancestors did own slaves. I'm not proud of that, I believe slavery was and is wrong. But that was an accepted way of life then. And I'm not going to apologize for something I had nothing to do with. Can any of us truly?say that if we lived in the 1700's we wouldn't have lived like everyone else? I'm glad we have made some progress but slavery still exists in our world today. But if my families service to this country has told me anything it is that they have fought for my freedom as well as yours. So if I want to fly the Confederate Flag at my house or wear a Conferate Flag on my jacket it is no ones business but my own. And don't put your morals onto me, keep them to yourself. If I physically do something to harm you then you have recourse but if I am not hurting anyone then it's my business and my counsel I will keep. |
Comments: 1542 Joined: 01/08/2006 |
03/07/2008 02:53:51 PM
Ringgoldone, check your history, the majority of the black soldiers who fought for the south were free black men, not slaves. They fought for the south to preserve the freedoms that they held. According to the 1860 census there were 240,747 "free Negroes" in the slave states, 15,000 more than lived in the free states to the north. It is a shame and disgrace that the flag was ever used as a symbol of racism or hate, but you also need to remember that the KKK used the Bible and the Cross to defend their actions. Do you see the cross as a symbol of hate??? |
Comments: 615 Joined: 07/24/2006 |
03/07/2008 02:43:54 PM
"We are Americans and we have an American flag" - that has been true since 1776"there were black confederate soldiers" - from what I have read about some (not all) of the slave owners - what choice did they have? Where were the SCVers in the 1950's and 1960's when the battle flag was being used by segregationists to represent racism and hatred? Why were they not concerned about the true heritage of the flag back then? |
Comments: 126 Joined: 10/23/2007 |
03/07/2008 02:08:17 PM
ahh good point maggie.. |
Comments: 1542 Joined: 01/08/2006 |
03/07/2008 01:32:14 PM
Twinkie, I was just going to say the same thing. I too had ancestors who fought in the war and have never viewed the flag as anything but a flag of the conferate states. What many forget or don't want to remember is that there were black conferated soldiers. Now, if it was a flag of hate, do anyone think they would have fought for the south??? |
Comments: 281 Joined: 11/29/2007 |
03/07/2008 01:27:51 PM
Twinkie, You worded that very well and I totally agree with you. I had family who fought for the confederates and "that flag" was never a symbol of hatred (we were too poor for slaves as well)...but I prefer to fly the American Flag in my yard. This does not make me any less proud of my Southern heritage. |
Comments: 416 Joined: 01/18/2006 |
03/07/2008 09:37:48 AM
My great grandfather was a farrier in the Civil War. He brought home "that flag" that still remains with my family members. He never owned any slaves as most of our families did not, that was for the wealthy. Many of our families were share croppers. I can't imagine that he connected the flag with Slavery, only as representative of the war in which he fought. I see nothing wrong with having pride in "that flag", but with our world today, it makes no sense to fly a flag that is obsolete. We are Americans and we have an American flag. It represents all Americans and is the one I fly. I don't think my great grandfather would mind. |
Comments: 615 Joined: 07/24/2006 |
03/07/2008 05:59:29 AM
I think for those of us who rightly connect "that flag" with slavery and segregation might understand and support the SCVers who simply want to honor the dead if they would have the guts to step up and say that it was wrong to enslave African-Americans, that it was wrong to segregate blacks and whites, and that they reject all forms of racism then and now. They need to admit that we all are created equally by God and that the same blood flows through all of our veins.If they are so proud of this heritage, then they need to publicly rebuke and separate themselves from cowards like the KKK and demand that they stop using the flag as a symbol of hate. |
Comments: 3 Joined: 03/28/2006 |
03/07/2008 01:51:34 AM
The Confederate Battle Flag With The "St Andrews Cross" was not the only Confederate Battle Flag, but She was the most known and used late in that great war. She is the most, hated, debated, misrepresented and beloved of all Confederate symbols. She has been tarnished by groups as the, naacp "by way of slander", kkk, aryan nation, skinheads, neo nazi, white supremacy clowns...Just to name a few. She was not a national flag, nor was She a politician's flag, and most defiantly not a flag of hate!..."She was a soldier's flag" a banner of courage, honour and a call to duty. She was a rallying point for battling warriors. Many died to keep Her safe and out of enemy hands, this Flag was stained with the blood of our Southron patriots. Last, and most important...SHE WAS AN AMERICAN FLAG!!As Southron, we owe it to ourselves and noble ancestry to protect Her and hold Her in reverence. We must stand up to "Those People" that slander Her, for that slander is slander toward us and our past. We must never let our past be removed from our future.... I don't care who it offends! Jeannie Babb Taylor, YOU ARE INVITED! Ringgold Georgia Confederate Flag Rally We have the permit for below: County Courthouse Sidewalk Downtown Ringgold, Georgia. April 26th, 2008 12-4pm. Rain or Shine http://www.newconfederatepartisans.org/inviteringgold.html Tommy Aaron |
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Joined: 01/19/2007
One other thing, I was under the impression that the big reason for the war was state's rights, not slavery.