Recent Comments in Religion
Matters of Faith
Romans11Six
Comments: 21
Joined: 07/02/2008
07/25/2008 06:11:49 PM
Grace You wrote;
"Now, I wonder often, WHY is the truth CONTINUALLY being hid from those who seek it? Are those who are in positions of authority in the churches most likely "hiding" it for their own benefit? OR do they even know it themselves?"

Good question.

To bad most are not teaching according to the revelation of the "Mystery".

We must recognize and respect the revelation of the mystery.
The bible declares that Jesus Christ revealed the mystery to the Apostle Paul:

In Ephesians 3:3 Paul writes "that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,"

We read about the mystery in Pauls writings, but for more than four thousand years it "hath been hid from ages and from generations, But Now is made manifest to his saints," according to Colossians 1:26.

None of the twelve apostles was privy to this mystery as Paul declares "I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ," according to Galatians 1:12.

Before the creation, before Adam and Eve, the Godhead of Father, Son and Spirit had planned this mystery and ordained when Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh, would "speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:" (1 Corinthians 2:7).

We are to engage in the "preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept sevret since the world began," (Romans 16:25), which clearly differs from Peters message which was "spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began," according to Acts 3:21.

"The Revelation of the Mystery" is a term which describes the body of "New Information" which Christ imparted to Paul;

and there are some most important aspects to this mystery of truth.

1. Israel is blind and fallen, and as a result, a new salvation program comes to the Gentiles ... US.
Romans 11:11 and Romans 11:25.

2. Gods dealing with humanity changes to... "the dispensation of the grace of God which is given to [Paul] to write to US. Ephesians 3:2. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles" Ephesians 3:5 apart from the law "for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Romans 6:14. and without Israel "for I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34.

3. The focus becomes a New Creature (the body of Christ) with Christ as the head, rather than Israels kingdom over which Christ will be king: 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a New Creature... Colossians 1:18 And he is the Head of the Body, the Church...

4. The Lord has us here on earth as ambassadors: 2 Corinthians 5:20. We are here to see souls saved and saints edified 1 Timothy 2:4.

5. Rather than ruling on Earth with the tribes of Israel, we will meet Jesus Christ in heavenly places: 1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed... 1 Thessalonians 4:13 and 4:16-17.
Matters of Faith
bygracethrufaith
Comments: 783
Joined: 07/13/2007
07/25/2008 04:03:00 PM
Thanks romans.

Yep, as a human, I'm very good at messing up.(lol) Thankfully, I'm already seen as "perfect" by God (through His Son, of course) and am already seen "seated in heaven."

Not that my earthly mistakes don't matter to others, but again, THANKFULLY, God isn't holding them against me.

It IS pretty cool about how the Bible answers itself. I've found that to be true on just about every question that I've come up with. For many years, I didn't know that I could find so many answers within the pages of the Bible. I figured that if the preachers and teachers weren't coming up with the answers, then they simply must not be there. Who was I to have ever thought that I could understand anything that they cannot.

Now, I wonder often, WHY is the truth CONTINUALLY being hid from those who seek it? Are those who are in positions of authority in the churches most likely "hiding" it for their own benefit? OR do they even know it themselves?
Matters of Faith
Romans11Six
Comments: 21
Joined: 07/02/2008
07/25/2008 03:50:24 PM
The dividing page that reads "New Testament" was not in the bible prior to the late 1500's.

It was placed there "wrongly" so we must now allow the bible to correct our wrong thinking that is a product of that error.

I dont think that it was placed there on purpose to mess up anyone, Many have said that the publisher did it for a matter of convenience.

This has mislead so many concerning bible doctrine.

IM sure you already know that Hebrews 9:15-17 gives us a clear answer as to where the New Testament really begins.

Thank God the bible answers itself, for as you can see, when left up to us mere humans we can mess up anything ... lol.
Matters of Faith
Diogenes
Comments: 412
Joined: 01/31/2006
07/25/2008 03:30:56 PM
We each have a right to believe whatever we think is true.

To me the whole bible is true, as it is to both of you. I can't help that the truths I see there differ from what you see.

Whether or not it shows, I love even you two strangers for what you have tried to do here, because I do believe your motives are genuine, and good.

I can't stand to fight with you anymore about our differences, because it has increasingly turned ugly, and I want no more of such.
Matters of Faith
bygracethrufaith
Comments: 783
Joined: 07/13/2007
07/25/2008 03:17:21 PM
Romans,
also wanted to mention, I noticed that they are having some interesting discussions over on one of the other blogs, about that large denomination that you just mentioned. Quite interesting how people look at things sometimes.
I actually saw one of the bloggers say, in what looked to be a defense of Catholocism that "at least they don't believe in once saved always saved." And then turn around and say something like "people shouldn't be attacked because of what they believe."
Matters of Faith
bygracethrufaith
Comments: 783
Joined: 07/13/2007
07/25/2008 03:12:58 PM
Why, thank you, Romans. It's good to be back...well, Kinda. LOL.

BTW, you can just call me "Grace" if you'd like. That's what most around here call me.

Isn't it awesome that the next generations will know more than we do?!?

It's exciting to me to think that my children already know more than I knew about the scriptures when I was their age. Just think what they will know when they get to be my age!

A side note- remember when I asked you that question a while back about exactly when that dividing page between the old and (so-called) new testaments was put into bibles? I was just wondering if you'd ever had a chance to look that up and prove me "wrong" on that date I put up! I'll be the first to admit that I was probably wrong on that (I'm not good at remembering numbers. lol) So, if you could let me know what you've come up with on that, I would appreciate it!

Thanks again for the warm welcome.
Matters of Faith
Romans11Six
Comments: 21
Joined: 07/02/2008
07/25/2008 03:00:52 PM
Welcome back bygracethrufaith

You wrote;
"Jump hundreds of years to Scofield, who, in his famous Bible has many many notes and commentaries that I agree so much with....then there are those that I see as being different what I believe. He didn't understand it all. We don't understand it all. But with each generation, we are "getting it" more and more."

I agree.

For centuries approaching the bible Dispensationally was swept under the rug by the largest Denomination in the world, but slowly I see Humpty Dumpty being put back together again ... lol.

Again, welcome back.
Matters of Faith
Diogenes
Comments: 412
Joined: 01/31/2006
07/25/2008 02:40:25 PM


Onward selfrighteous soldiers, judging like it's war.


Matters of Faith
bygracethrufaith
Comments: 783
Joined: 07/13/2007
07/25/2008 02:04:04 PM
Hi all....been out of town for a little relaxation...had a great time, but it looks like you guys have been pretty busy! lol.

I wanted to answer this:
"There are a number of different dispensational views, with some considerable differences, and it would help in my understanding if I knew a little more about yours.

I have no idea if both of you agree on these, so if you do not mind doing so, a high level description of this would be very helpful."

I'll answer, if for no other reason, because of this post that I just read:
" Marcion founded a cult which very effectively divided out all of the New Testament other than Paul, by claiming the other apostles were "Falsifiers of God". His problem, what led to his demise, was that he also divided out the entire Old Testament as being about an entirely different God.

Augustine showed some leanings toward thinking Paul had a different message, but he didn't carry that thought too far.

In the Reformation of the Catholic church, Martin Luther wanted to excise the verse you mention from James, because it contradicted his interpretation of your favorite verses from Romans.

The more modern TWI group, also believe in a dispensational division, and are often heard saying "The Word Rightly Divided", but I don't think they share your ideas about not wanting to be part of the Kingdom of Heaven.

So, dispensational division is not really anything new, and I am very aware of the theories behind many of these beliefs, but I simply don't have the same views."



---Seems we're getting a bit out of control with the comparisons, here. A quick study on each of those listed (which I would encourage anyone who doesn't know what they believe to do) will show you that there's really no comparison with dispensationalism and any of those mentioned.

Something very interesting to note before I answer the question: All of the people listed above who had some sort of idea about "rightly dividing the word" apparently actually NOTICED that there were differences in the Bible in who was being spoken to, and what was being said. They apparently noted the contradictions in speach. BUT, just because they didn't know how to handle that is no reason to put ME or anyone of similar faith in the same category as them.

Now, here are the different dispensations that I recognise:
As far as defining what I believe, I feel I have done so repeatedly. If I am to "classify" myself with some sort of dispensational label, I fear that others may have more insight in that area than I, as I have yet to be able to place myself into a category in which a man has titled "this or that." I am aware that there are various beliefs concerning dispensationalism....understanding also, that most all believers could also be categorized, technically, as a dispensationalist, to some extent - as most everyone apparently does recognize that God has dealt with various people in various ways at various times, with different instructions pertaining to each person, all to reach one common goal...though the goal has not always been clear to all at each of their "present" times-past. We now have the ability to look back and understand what God was directing these people toward:
An establishment of HIS Kingdom, here on earth.

Adam and Eve --- were given dominion over the Earth...were told to multiply and subdue. Eat only the herbs and plants (vegetarian diet)
Purpose? To begin the establishment of HIS Kingdom. BUT - Sin entered, the end of innocence. God then dealt with man by his conscience.

Noah was instructed to build an ark. He, his family, and the animals that he took were the only ones in existence after the flood. -Noah was also able to eat "anything that moveth" as well as the vegetables...no dietary restrictions there.
Purpose? To continue the establishment of the Kingdom. BUT - Man, once again wished to exalt himself over God, hence, the tower of Babel, etc. Then came God's dealings with man through human government...via Kings, judges, prophets, etc.

Abraham was told to leave his family and his hometown and venture off to a far land, establishing the existence of the Hebrew people. God established a covenant with him. This is when the age of promise begins.

Then comes Moses, the deliverance of the Hebrews from Egypt, and the giving of the various laws, including those pesky dietary restrictions, to the Hebrews....for the purpose of seperation....and preparation for the establishment of God's Kingdom, in which they would reign over all other nations. Everything is STILL pointing toward that Kingdom, even Jesus continues to prepare His followers for this. Immediately after the ascension of Christ, his followers were still making preparations for the coming Kingdom in which they would reign on earth.


Somewhere around the middle part of Acts (don't have my bible in front of me at the moment, but I think it's Chapter 13) while the jewish people continue to reject the message of Christ as the crucified messiah (jews still reject that idea today, not believing that a "messiah" could have ever been killed, and also believing that the concept of "God in the flesh" is totally blasphemous) Paul and Barnabas turn away from delivering that message to the Jews and proclaim that they will take the message of Grace to the Gentiles. Beginning the Church Age, or the age of Grace. - as a side note, also notice that Peter is told that all things are clean for him to eat, which was really also an instruction to go to the gentiles with that "kingdom message" - just prior to this, also removing those dietary restrictions... the diet changed yet again.

When the "fullness of the Gentiles is come in" then you will have the millenial reign, when the Kingdom is finally put into place. This is where the book of Hebrews picks up, and stays closely in line with Revelation. I have not done a complete "in-depth" study on this as of yet, but have learned enough to know that I am not a part of what these books contain, as the prophecy of Israel is clearly outlined, while Paul tells us in Thessalonians that we will be called away to meet Jesus in the air. He even says that he has no need to included certain portions of this prophetic event. This is because the people to whom he is speaking will not be a part of that which they are so concerned and worried about. Knowing this, I do not ponder much on events that I clearly have no need of knowing, and am content with the fact that I will be where ever God places me, and He will use me in whatever capacity He sees fit. So I do not worry much about it. Right now, I am focused on this age of Grace that I am in, and attempting to uphold my responsibilities within it.

And yes, there are others in the past who have had similar beliefs:

For example: one of the first instances of "dividing" the Bible into dispensational ages comes from St. Augustine of Hippo. Pretty amazing that he did recognize these distinctive differences in God's dealings with man...but that does not mean that he was correct in knowing the reasons why. Jump hundreds of years to Scofield, who, in his famous Bible has many many notes and commentaries that I agree so much with....then there are those that I see as being different what I believe. He didn't understand it all. We don't understand it all. But with each generation, we are "getting it" more and more.

Now, concerning different dispensational theories....I am pretty sure that some others here are much more educated on that than myself. I do not do alot of research on it. I am well aware that there are many titles, categories, classifications, etc.
Ringgoldone has repeatedly called me a Hyperdispensationalist. To be honest, I don't even know what that is. I tried to do a little research on the terms, but it seems to me, that since I do not believe in denominationalism, that to categorize myself with any of those names would absolutely cause me to do something that I do not believe in. I do not have to be a part of a group or club to know that what I believe is correct.
Matters of Faith
Romans11Six
Comments: 21
Joined: 07/02/2008
07/25/2008 01:24:14 PM
I told you many post back, that we will have to agree to disagree, in which I thought was a nice way to end our discussion, but you insisted on continuing to make post to me and some of the things you said were not all that nice but no biggee I can handle it.

When looking back at some post between you and others, I notice this seems to be a pattern with you.

This business of claiming that bloggers are attacking you, insulting you ect...

Im failing to see it as "Attacking" you just because someone doesnt agree, or supplies you with bible verses that perhaps you have missed.

Right now I see no need to try to have a discussion with you, for I have given the verses that stand alone without anyones help and you indeed do as I have said before Disregard them...sorry I use the 'D' word because I guess that now means IM attacking you.

If I in the future have anything to say to you, I will try to pay close attention to the words I use and I will be sure and walk sofly so that you dont feel attacked.